A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, August 31, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: Turmoil at the CDC as Secretary Kennedy pushes to overhaul the nation's vaccine policies.
"THIS WEEK" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: The White House fires the CDC director after just weeks on the job. Top leaders resign in protest amid a fierce clash over vaccines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need our leaders above us to believe in CDC and stop saying, question the experts.
RADDATZ: This morning, we'll speak with the former CDC vaccine chief after he walked off the job, and former acting CDC director Dr. Richard Besser on how vaccine policy changes could impact the health and safety of all Americans.
Crime clash.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not walking in Baltimore right now. Baltimore is a hellhole.
RADDATZ: President Trump expands his potential targets for troop deployments to clean up American cities.
GOV. WES MOORE, (D) MARYLAND: I have no interest in fighting with the president, but I have an interest in fighting for my communities.
RADDATZ: We travel to Baltimore to speak with Maryland Governor Wes Moore about how blue states are pushing back.
And terror in Minneapolis. After two children are killed and 18 others are wounded during morning mass at a catholic school, local leaders call for action.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying.
RADDATZ: GOP House Majority Whip Tom Emmer of Minnesota responds.
Plus, analysis with our powerhouse roundtable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "THIS WEEK." Here now, Martha Raddatz.
RADDATZ: Good morning and welcome to "THIS WEEK."
On this Sunday morning, members of the Annunciation Church in Minneapolis gathered for their first Sunday morning mass after the tragic shooting targeting schoolchildren there this week, killing two and injuring 18 others. We will look at where the investigation stands and get an update on the injured later in the broadcast.
But we begin this morning with the shake-up at the Centers for Disease Control and what it could mean for public health. Donald Trump has fired lawyers, generals and diplomats, all causing major upheaval. But what happened this week with the firing of the head of the CDC could have a profound impact on the health of all Americans.
After President Trump's successful launch of the COVID vaccine in 2020 with Operation Warp Speed, his new HHS secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr., seems to be taking a very different view of vaccines, and removing public health experts who stand in the way.
These are the top CDC officials who were either fired or resigned in protest this week, including now former CDC Director Susan Monarez, who was forced out less than a month on the job. I'll speak with one of the top vaccine experts who resigned in a moment, but first, ABC’s senior White House correspondent Selina Wang has the latest on the story that is rocking healthcare advocates across the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SELINA WANG, ABC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This week, chaos at the nation's top public health agency, a stunning firing, a mass exodus of top leaders.
DR. DEB HOURY, FORMER CDC DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PROGRAM AND SCIENCE: When our scientific leader wasn't going to be leading the agency, we couldn't be at a -- this agency anymore.
DR. DANIEL JERNIGAN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF CDC NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION & RESPIRATORY DISEASES: Let's get the politics out of public health.
FORMER DIRECTOR OF CDC NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION & RESPIRATORY DISEASES DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS: We are going to be your loudest advocates.
WANG (voice over): At the center, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a long-time vaccine skeptic, overhauling our nation's health policies.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: There’s a lot of trouble at CDC, and it’s going to require getting rid of some people over the long term in order for us to change the institutional culture.
WANG (voice over): The dramatic departures following a clash between Kennedy and CDC Director Susan Monarez, forced out just a month after her swearing in.
KENNEDY: Susan is an expert in public health.
WANG (voice over): But Kennedy turning on her when she refused his orders to fire top officials and back his overhaul of vaccine policy. Initially, Monarez's lawyer said she never resigned, never got formal notice from the president, and was ousted because she “refused to rubber-stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fire dedicated health experts.”
The White House firing back.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: She made it abundantly clear herself that she was not aligned with the president's mission to make America healthy again. So, the president fired her, which he has every right to do.
WANG (voice over): Kennedy has named his deputy HHS secretary, Jim O’Neill, the interimCDC director, who has said he supports vaccines, but not mandates.
JIM O'NEILL, ACTING CDC DIRECTOR: I'm very much in favor of vaccines. I think vaccines are one of the greatest public health interventions in human history. They’ve saved millions of lives. They will continue to save millions of lives.
WANG (voice over): The CDC reeling amid growing confusion over how and where Americans will get the new COVID vaccine. The FDA approved this fall's version only for people over 65 or high risk children and adults. The White House insists the vaccine will still be available for all Americans who consult with their doctors, but sidestep when pressed on whether insurance will continue to cover it.
LEAVITT: The FDA's decision does not affect the availability of Covid vaccines for Americans who want them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WANG (on camera): Meanwhile, insurance providers are waiting for guidance from the CDC's advisory panel, which doesn't meet for several more weeks. And that panel has been completely reshaped by Kennedy, who recently replaced that panel with his own, handpicked members, many who share his own vaccine skeptic views.
Martha.
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: I'm joined now by Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, who stepped down this week from his position leading the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.
Thank you for joining us this morning, Doctor.
You have been at the CDC for five years, about seven months, under Secretary Kennedy. In your resignation letter, you said that the CDC is “generating policies that do not reflect scientific reality and are designed to hurt rather than improve the public’s health.”
What are you talking about specifically?
FORMER DIRECTOR OF CDC NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION & RESPIRATORY DISEASES DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS: Right. I'm going to say, well, first, thank you for having me on, Martha.
And I'll say that we’re seeing the tip of the iceberg. So, right now, I think probably the most prominent demonstration of that is what Secretary Kennedy did with changing the childhood schedule for COVID-19. In that, we were directed that only children with underlying conditions would be the ones that should quality for vaccination. That’s not what the data shows. Six months old to two year old, their underlying condition is youth. Fifty-three percent of those children hospitalized last season had no underlying conditions. The data say that in that age range you should be vaccinating your child. I understand that not everybody does it. But they have limited access by narrowing that recommendation. Insurance may not cover it.
RADDATZ: And -- and you say designed to hurt. The policies are designed to hurt the public’s health. Are you saying they are deliberately, purposely, knowingly hurting public health?
DASKALAKIS: I mean, from my vantage point as a doctor who’s taken the Hippocratic oath, I only see harm coming. I may be wrong. But based on what I'm seeing, based on what I've heard with the new members of the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices, or ACIP, they’re really moving in an ideologic direction where they want to see the undoing of vaccination. They do want to see the undoing of mRNA vaccination. They have a very specific target on COVID. But I do fear that they have other things that they are going to be working on.
Hepatitis B vaccine is on the agenda for the meeting on -- in September. I predict that what they’re going to do is try to change the birth dose of Hepatitis B vaccine so that kids don’t get it when they’re born. So, if you have a mother who is well-connected to care, you know her Hepatitis B status, that may not matter very much. But if you have a mother who’s not gone to prenatal care, who comes in to deliver, we have one bite at that apple so that child gets that important Hepatitis B vaccine.
Why does it matter? Kids who have Hepatitis B, they get liver scarring, it’s called cirrhosis, later in life, or it’s a really common cause of liver cancer.
RADDATZ: Doctor, Deputy Secretary Jim O’Neill, who's now in charge of the CDC after Susan Monarez was fired, has said he is very much in favor of vaccines. Do you not trust that?
DASKALAKIS: Honestly, I really want to trust him (ph), because I do -- you know, as someone who’s worked in government, I have faith that the people who are given positions of prominence over health agencies generally are people who are looking for the public -- looking toward the public health.
But based on the very first post that I've seen from him on X, where he says that CDC scientists manipulated data to be able to follow an ideology or an agenda in the childhood schedule, makes me think that I know who -- what leader he serves. And that leader is one that does not believe in vaccinations and will say, we’re not going to limit access to vaccine, but what they’re going to do instead, yes, it will be on the shelf, but you’re not going to be able to find it at a pharmacy, that’s already happened. CVS, Walgreens, because of this confusion, they’re not going to stock it, or they’re going to require a doctor’s prescription.
So, this destabilization of trust in experts -- again, skepticism is good, but really listening to experts, that skepticism by the new acting director of CDC should tell you that we have a big problem.
RADDATZ: And let’s talk about Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, who is a doctor. He voted to confirm Kennedy. But he said this week that the HHS Advisory Committee on Vaccination should be indefinitely postponed following the firings at the CDC. I assume you agree with that.
DASKALAKIS: Senator Cassidy is -- I've actually had the opportunity to brief him. I've briefed him about AIDS and influenza. He’s extremely thoughtful. Very intelligent. Asked me very insightful questions.
I think that we are really singing from the same songbook, that right now it doesn’t seem as if that committee is going to be able to have disimpassioned discussion and debate and, instead, it’s going to be a platform for people who are pushing an ideology to try to change science and also to impact the health of the American people. I think that that is really good advice from Senator Cassidy.
RADDATZ: And you made the decision to leave, saying, “There is not a path for doing good for public health and the CDC.”
So, what effect will this have on the CDC, all these resignations, your resignation? Are you worried about what you’re leaving behind and that others may follow you?
DASKALAKIS: Of course, I'm worried. I've been worried for months. I mean, I think, if you’ve read my resignation letter, I did not write that resignation letter in 15 minutes. I have been ready to do this when I felt that I hit the line.
And I hit the line when both I didn’t think that we were going to be able to present science in a way free of ideology, that the firewall between science and ideology is completely broken down. And not having a scientific leader at CDC meant that we wouldn’t be able to have the necessary diplomacy and connection with HHS to be able to really execute on good public health.
Both of those things mean that I can’t do my job and that my scientists can’t do their job. When that happens, that’s the beginning of harm. And that’s the end of what I can do as a physician who said that first I would do no harm.
RADDATZ: I'm joined now by former acting CDC director, Dr. Richard Besser, now president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.
Dr. Besser, always good to see you.
President Trump has fired a lot of people since he took office again. Many others in the CDC have quit now. What real difference will this make?
DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING CDC DIRECTOR & ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON CEO & PRESIDENT: You know, Martha, I think the difference is going to be profound. The CDC is an absolutely critical piece of the protection for Americans from any public health threat.
Now, with the director being removed, senior leadership leaving, I have great fears for what will happen to this country the next time we face a public health emergency, whether it's a massive earthquake, a new infectious agent, or unfortunately, the next pandemic.
RADDATZ: And we've been talking about the COVID recommendations. What are the practical considerations now? How serious is it? I think people say it's not 2020, so do I really need to get the booster or the vaccine?
BESSER: Yeah, you know, it is in 2020. But you know, I'm a pediatrician. I practiced pediatrics for more than 30 years. And you know, we are still seeing 200 children each year die from COVID, and the vast majority of those children are unvaccinated.
So, my recommendation is that, you know, stop listening to the politicians, talk to your doctor about what's right for you.
You know, there are individuals who are at greater risk, but there are also people who live with those who are at greater risk, live with elderly people, live with people with cancer. For those individuals, getting a COVID vaccine is really important.
Unfortunately, with the recommendations coming out of the department, many people may have to pay for this out of pocket and a lot of people can't afford to do that.
RADDATZ: I know there's been concern from public health officials like you about Kennedy, given his history of unsubstantiated claims about the link between vaccines and autism.
He talked about researching the causes of autism this week with President Trump. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The autism is such a tremendous horror show. How are you doing on that part (ph)?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: We are doing very well. We will have announcements as promised in September, finding interventions, certain interventions now that are clearly almost certainly causing autism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: Again, there's no scientific support for a link between autism and vaccines, but are you concerned about what he might announce?
BESSER: I'm very concerned. You know, when he was -- was being confirmed to be secretary, one of the things he said is don't listen to him for scientific advice. He's not a scientist.
But since he has become secretary, he, very frequently, is making scientific proclamations that have absolutely no basis.
So, I'm worried as to what he'll say. There's incredible research going on to try and understand the many causes of autism and how to provide the best services for people who are on -- on the autism spectrum. I don't see this as a secretary who's going to follow the science. He has been following ideology from day one.
RADDATZ: Because of what you're seeing at the CDC, who should people take advice from now? The CDC still?
BESSER: Well, for personal health information, I think you need to talk to your doctor, your nurse, your pharmacist.
You know, I worry, though, about the nation as a whole. You know, I served as the acting director of the CDC at the start of the Obama administration. And the reason I was given that job was that I had run emergency preparedness at the agency for four years. They wanted to make sure someone was in that seat in the event there was a public health emergency. And there was. There was the H1N1 swine flu pandemic.
We now have, as an acting director, someone with absolutely no public health experience, and that puts us all at incredible risk.
RADDATZ: And, Dr. Besser, I want to ask you one thing about mandates. It's one of the things that Secretary Kennedy said this week and touted progress that he's made. He said he ended the mandates.
Why do you think mandates are important?
BESSER: Well, you know, when I think about mandates, I think about children going to school. I think about young parents who are sending their children to school and want to know that their children are safe.
And the way children are safe from vaccine preventable diseases is by getting vaccinated themselves. But no vaccine is 100 percent. And so, you count on the other children in that classroom being vaccinated.
I think with this secretary, we are on a path to it being largely parental choice. And that is going to put at risk those people who -- for whom the vaccine didn't work and children who may have medical conditions where they can't get vaccinated. That is a major step backwards for public health.
RADDATZ: And if there were -- quickly if you will -- if there were another pandemic, you think there should be a mandate?
BESSER: Well, it depends on the situation. You know, if it's a situation like we had with COVID early on where you have a new infectious agent, yeah, mandates can save millions of lives. If it's another situation where -- where your own decision to vaccinate doesn't have an impact on other people, then you want to look to give people as much choice as they can. That's where the balance is and it will change during an event as you learn more information.
RADDATZ: Okay, thanks for joining us this morning, Dr. Besser. Always good to see you.
Up next, he's taking on President Trump over his use of the National Guard to tackle crime. I travel to Baltimore to speak with Maryland Governor Wes Moore. That conversation when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Baltimore and Oakland, we don't even mention that anymore. They're so -- they're so far gone. We're not going to let it happen. We're not going to lose our cities over this.
Wes Moore was telling me, he wants -- I want to walk with the president. Well, I said, I want to walk with you, too, someday, but first you got to clean up your crime because I'm not walking -- I'm not walking in Baltimore right now. Baltimore is a hell hole. And this guy, I don't even think he knows it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: President Trump this week challenging Maryland Governor Wes Moore and renewing his threat to send the National Guard into Baltimore as he considers expanding his Washington, D.C. crackdown to other major cities including Chicago and New York.
Baltimore, like most cities across the country, has seen a drop in crime and homicides in recent years, but still remains one of America's most violent cities. So we traveled there this week and walked the streets with Governor Moore and asked him how Democrats are tackling crime while taking on the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RADDATZ: Violent crime has all -- has clearly declined in the city, and yet, Baltimore has the fifth highest rate in violent crime, fourth highest murder rate per capita in cities over 100,000.
GOV. WES MOORE (D), MARYLAND: This was one of the big reasons why I ran for governor in the first place because the year before I was elected in 2022, Baltimore was averaging almost eight homicide a day. And you're absolutely right. I mean, while we still very much have work to do, there is -- it's very encouraging the fact that Maryland has had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States over the past two and a half years.
It would just be great if we could have a president of the United States to actually understand that this is one of the great American turnaround stories that's happening right now, and we would love the help to be able to continue to do that work instead of this -- this arrogant criticism and cynicism that he continues to introduce into the conversation.
RADDATZ: But you have to admit, Governor, that there are people out there who don't feel safe and you can tout what you have done, but that is a real problem to people.
MOORE: Yes, I know. It's I -- my heart breaks for anybody who is coming up in our community and doesn't feel safe in their own neighborhood because I know what that feels like. I would love more federal support, but federal support on things that actually make sense and not things that are performative.
RADDATZ: And you're talking about -- clearly you're talking about the National Guard, and you're saying that's performative.
MOORE: The National Guard is completely performative because the National Guard is not even trained for it. In fact --
RADDATZ: The National Guard does law enforcement -- they do -- they do training for disasters. They do training for national emergencies.
MOORE: Correct. And as the commander-in-chief of the Maryland National Guard, you know, I am not just deeply respectful, but very cognizant of the skill sets that our National Guards bring. And the National Guard is not trained for municipal policing. You know who is trained for municipal policing? Things like local law enforcement, and things like FBI agents and ATF agents, who, by the way, in the president's proposed budgets actually cut funding for them.
RADDATZ: And yet one of the things that they're trying to do in D.C. with the National Guard is have them back up local law enforcement.
MOORE: They're picking up trash.
RADDATZ: They are definitely picking up trash in certain places. But if you look at the crime and you've heard Mayor Bowser say, 87 percent reduction in carjackings, robberies, cut by half. Why wouldn't you want that here, if that is actually helping?
MOORE: If the president of the United States were to have a serious conversation with me and say, what can we do, particularly when you look at the cost of the National Guard of well over a million dollars a day, what could you -- what could we actually do? Do you know what I would tell him? I would tell him things like we need to make sure we're increasing funding for local law enforcement. And we have to invest in our community groups and community organizations.
Like, that's a serious approach, how to address this issue, but asking me to deploy my National Guard, people who are not trained for municipal policing, is just not a serious approach.
RADDATZ: But I want to go back to Mayor Bowser again. She said it has been successful. Why would you say, wait, I want you to ask me this way instead of that way? Why fight with the president instead of having that chance if that is an opportunity that can improve crime?
MOORE: Well, no, and I have no interest in fighting with the president, but I have an interest in fighting for my communities and fighting for our people, and I respect Mayor Bowser, and I'm glad that the trend that she has seen over these past few weeks has continued the downward trend that D.C. has seen over the past year. That's wonderful. The idea of introducing the National Guard into every major American city, it is -- it is not sustainable, particularly when you're looking at the cost.
RADDATZ: Let's talk about President Trump. Your criticism, jokingly sometimes, has really been sharper in the last few weeks. You've called him "President Bone Spurs." Obviously, that is talking about his lack of service.
MOORE: Well, I mean, listen, I -- when the President wants to attack my military record, as someone who's actually a decorated combat veteran, as someone who actually has served overseas, as someone who has defended the country -- I just think that if the president wants to have a real debate about public service and about the sacrifice for this country, he should really sit that debate out. I'm not the one he wants to have it with.
RADDATZ: But is this the way that Democrats are going to approach Donald Trump in the future? Is that an efficient and effective strategy for the Democrats?
In 2024, there was a lot of criticism of the Democrats. Hey, you're just telling me what you think is wrong with Donald Trump --
MOORE: Yeah.
RADDATZ: -- instead of telling me what you can do and change things --
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: And that --
RADDATZ: -- the economy, crime, immigration.
MOORE: One thing I do believe is that the Democrats don't have a messaging problem. There's a results problem.
The Democrats have to deliver results and stop being the party of no and slow, and start being the party of yes and now, because the frustration that people have, it is real. It is real when people are saying that, you know what, I feel like my life situation has not changed.
And so, people are looking at all these things and saying, I'm done with all of you. And so that's why I think we have to move with the kind of aggression that is necessary.
RADDATZ: I want to go back to -- to your service. You served in Afghanistan. You know the president has brought up you claiming you had a Bronze Star in 2006 when you were applying for a job. Why did you do that?
MOORE: Well, listen, I think it's -- I'm deeply proud of my service to this country, and I know my soldiers that I serve with are deeply proud, and the veteran community is as well. And I think it's pretty common knowledge or common belief that when your -- when your commanding officers, and your superior officers tell you, listen, we put you in, and we've gone through everything. So, as you're going through your application, include it.
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I included it, and I didn't think about it.
RADDATZ: But, in 2008 on PBS, they said they introduced you. Gwen Ifill, saying you had earned a Bronze Star Medal. That's 2008. 2010, you were on the Colbert Show when he said you had a Bronze Star. You did not correct him.
You had to know you did not have one then.
MOORE: Well, it was, I did not go back and, you know, go back and tell the Pentagon, hey, I was told to put this on my application, and didn't. And honestly, at that point--
RADDATZ: I'm not talking about the Pentagon. I'm talking about you knew in those interviews you did not have one.
MOORE: No, because even at the time of those interviews, it wasn't something that I even thought about. When I came home, it wasn't something I even thought about.
I didn't think about the fact that, hey, I wonder if my paperwork processed out. Now I'm thankful that the -- that the military, after they found out that the paperwork was lost and didn't process that, they came back and awarded me the Bronze Star.
So, I -- yes, I do have --
RADDATZ: In 2024.
MOORE: So, I do have a Bronze Star that I earned in Afghanistan and a combat action badge that I earned in Afghanistan. So, I'm proud of that, but that's not why I served.
RADDATZ: But do you regret not correcting when you were introduced that way?
MOORE: I mean, I don't regret not going back and consistently looking over my service records. I don't. I'm thankful for the service I did.
I'm grateful for the fact that I had the opportunity to lead soldiers in combat, what a small fraction of this people of this country will ever understand.
RADDATZ: And just last and some final thoughts, if you will. You are clearly seen by the Democrats as a rising star. I know you've said you're not running for president now, that's not on your mind, but you haven't ruled it out in the future.
So how do you think Democrats should approach Donald Trump differently than they did in 2024?
MOORE: I mean, I don't think this is about how do you approach Donald Trump. I think it's about how do you approach 2025, right now.
I mean, we're looking in the state of Maryland where Donald Trump has fired over 12,000 federal employees who are Marylanders. Donald Trump has, as you know, now, cut a quarter of a billion dollars from rural hospitals in Maryland.
And so, I don't think that this is about how do you politically contrast Donald Trump, you've got to focus on protecting your people right now and the issues that the people in our states are facing, and that's where I know my focus is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RADDATZ: Our thanks to Governor Moore.
Up next, I’ll speak with GOP Congressman Tom Emmer of Minnesota about calls to address mental health after this week's deadly mass shooting in his home state.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE MERKEL, FATHER OF FLETCHER MERKEL: Fletcher loved his family, friends, fishing, cooking and any sport that he was allowed to play. While the hole in our hearts and lives will never be filled, I hope that in time our family can find healing. Please remember Fletcher for the person he was and not the act that ended his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: That was Jesse Merkel, the father of 8-year-old Fletcher Merkel, one of the two victims from that horrific mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis Wednesday morning.
The second victim, Harper Moyski, was just 10 years old, and remembered by her parents as bright, joyful and deeply loved, and someone whose laughter, kindness and spirit touched everyone who knew her.
Eighteen other people were injured including 15 children, when the 23-year-old shooter opened fire from outside the church, firing hundreds of rounds before dying from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Joining me now is GOP House Majority Whip Tom Emmer of Minnesota. His district covers the area northwest of Minneapolis.
Thanks for joining us this morning, Congressman, on a very sad day. Give us an update on the wounded if you can this morning?
REP. TOM EMMER (R-MN): Yes, well, first, thanks for having me, Martha, and unfortunately, under not the best circumstances.
Our hearts are broken and our prayers are with the families, the two families that lost their children. As you know, there were 20 that were injured, 18 of them are still being treated, 15 children and three adults. And according to the folks in Minneapolis, all are expected to survive.
I think Chief O'Hara, Minneapolis police chief, told us yesterday that all the victims are expected to survive, but, Martha, just because they survive, the trauma that all of these kids, the families that lost their two children, all the kids and the adults that were injured and every one of them that was at that mass is -- frankly the community is going to be dealing with this for a long time.
RADDATZ: They certainly will. And I've talked to so many victims from the past, and that will stay with them forever.
I do want to talk to you about the investigation itself. They’ve found mounds of writings from the shooter. Have the police been able to talk to the parents and find out whether they were alerted to mental health problems, whether they tried to have anybody intervene in the past?
EMMER: Well, first off, the FBI is investigating this as a domestic terrorism -- an act of domestic terrorism and a hate crime against Catholics. A lot of people don't know that the day before this shooting there was another shooting in Minneapolis where six people were -- actually five were injured and one was killed. And that took place right behind Cristo Rey Jesuit High School.
Look, this young man was seriously mentally disabled, deranged. Somebody had to know. We understand that the FBI has talked to his mother. But we'll wait for the investigation, for the FBI and local authorities to actually release information when it’s fully formed. But somebody had to know, Martha.
You're right, there are reams of writings, and clearly this young man was crying out for help. Why was no one hearing him? Why was no one listening? It’s -- it really is a tragedy. And that's the part that we need to know is, why wasn't this identified? Why wasn't this young man -- didn't somebody love him enough to try and help him before he became such a danger to his community and to -- to himself?
RADDATZ: Congressman, I know in the past people have tried to get help for -- for their children, for their adult children, in the mental health, in the mental health area. What can you really do to stop someone if they have mental health issues, and what should you do, what would you like to see going forward?
EMMER: Well, this is an area that I've actually worked on in Congress, Martha. The mental health crisis in this country is one of the main problems that we are faced with today. Exacerbated by the pandemic, exacerbated by the internet and all the rest. And we’ve got to figure out how to deal with it.
But people do have options. The key is that when you identify someone, maybe it’s in your family, maybe it’s a friend, maybe it’s in your neighborhood, your -- your support group, whatever your network is, you can report that to the appropriate authorities, your concern. It’s not trying to tattle on someone, it’s literally trying to help them.
This person may need some help. And we -- we’ve got another thing in this state, Martha, which I don't understand -- and we're going to find out more because this young man never should have had access or been able to possess a firearm based on what little we already know. And somebody who had to know that, there’s a red flag law in this state. And what that’s all about is, it’s usually used by a parent or a law enforcement officer to go to the court and get an order that this individual, because of their emotional state, the mental challenges that they have, the mental illness, cannot, should not possess a firearm because they’d be a danger to themselves and/or others.
RADDATZ: And -- and, Congressman, in -- in the short term, or maybe the long term, should law enforcement increase its presence in schools and places of worship? I know the governor has deployed them now.
EMMER: Yes, well, thanks a lot, Governor. He -- yes, the answer is, yes. The catholic community, along with other faith-based schools in this area, just a couple of years ago, when Tim Walz and the legislature were blowing through an $18 billion surplus, they asked for some of those resources, Martha, to -- for improving security in their schools. It was after the -- the very sad incident in Kentucky.
What did Tim Walz do? Absolutely nothing. So, it -- it’s -- yes, it’s going to be very important that these schools have the resources.
The other thing that you have to look at, Minneapolis, because of these crazy policies that the governor, the young mayor, the progressive, if that’s what you want to call her, county attorney, the Minneapolis school board, back in 2020, said -- they voted out having a Minneapolis policeman as a resource officer on the school property. I think we’ve got to go back and rethink these things. What works? What doesn’t work? And we’ve got to start improving our game --
RADDATZ: Congressman --
EMMER: Because it’s going to be really important.
Yes, ma’am.
RADDATZ: You -- you talk about what can be done. After mass shootings in Buffalo and in Uvalde, Texas, Congress passed the bipartisan Safer Communities Act.
It provided hundreds of millions of dollars for schools to expand mental health services, enhance safety measures.
You did not vote for that bill. Why?
EMMER: I -- I don’t remember the reasons that I didn’t vote for that bill. My -- I've got to tell you, we did a lot for Uvalde, but you can’t replace those children, Martha. You can’t. And you can’t help that community.
We’re talking about getting on the front end, Martha. We’re talking about, we need to have the resources to face the threats (ph) --
(CROSSTALK)
RADDATZ: This bill sounds like it might have done that.
EMMER: We need to get to the root cause.
Martha, that would have done that. That would have identified this young man’s mental health condition. That would have actually identified him as a danger to himself and the community before this ever happened.
No, that’s the part that we’ve got to identify. We’ve got to figure out why did this poor young man, who was so mentally disturbed, why, when he was crying out for help in public -- in the public square, where were -- where were -- were his friends, his family, his support group?
Why didn’t someone -- we’ve got to get to the bottom of this, Martha, because this is the problem. We’re always coming at it at the back end. We’re not talking about where the problem starts and how we deal with it, as the problem is growing.
RADDATZ: OK.
EMMER: This problem has been here for a long time. Nobody notified anyone.
RADDATZ: Thank you.
EMMER: And this young man was allowed -- I mean, our acting U.S. attorney, Martha, has said that this young man hated all groups, with the exception of mass murderers and school shooters.
RADDATZ: Congressman --
EMMER: If you knew that long ago, why weren’t we dealing with the problem on the front end?
RADDATZ: Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Congressman. We all hope this can be solved.
Up next, the president says he’s looking at Chicago for his next federal surge to address crime. The roundtable takes that on when we come back.
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MAYOR BRANDON JOHNSON (D), CHICAGO: I'm signing an executive order today that will launch the Protecting Chicago Initiative. We do not want to see tanks in our streets. We do not want to see families ripped apart. We do not want grandmothers thrown into the back of unmarked vans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: That was Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson before signing an executive order Saturday that he says is meant to, quote, “protect the people of Chicago from federal action”.
The roundtable is here to weigh in on all of that. We will be right back.
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RADDATZ: And let's bring in our roundtable. Former RNC chair and former Trump White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, former DNC chair Donna Brazile, and "The Wall Street Journal's" Molly Ball.
Welcome to all of you.
And -- and I'm going to get to immigration in Chicago in a minute. But, Donna, I want to start with you.
Joe Biden had extended Kamala Harris' protection beyond six months that is usual for a vice president.
DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: That’s correct.
RADDATZ: President Trump cut that off.
BRAZILE: Right.
RADDATZ: As of tomorrow, I believe.
BRAZILE: That's right. You know, extensions are normally given really based on credible threats or credible information. And when the president did this earlier this year, clearly there was an indication of something that was there.
As you know, in the past, former President Barack Obama extended it for Dick Cheney. Of course, we’ve seen other instances --
RADDATZ: Joe Biden did not extend it for Mike Pence, however.
BRAZILE: He did not extend it for Mike --
RADDATZ: Even though January 6th (INAUDIBLE).
BRAZILE: I under -- I understand. But before President Trump left office in 2021, he extended it for his five children. And Joe Biden never rescinded it. Compared to Donald Trump, who rescinded the Biden children this past March.
Look, this is petty. It’s small. It’s vindictive. It’s retribution. But, thankfully, Governor Newsom will step up. Mayor Bass of Los Angeles will step up. The vice president will continue to receive protection.
RADDATZ: And -- and, Reince, I want to go to you on this. You're kind of shaking your head there. Why -- why end it? Why -- why pull it right now? Because, I mean, the threat environment is out there.
REINCE PRIEBUS, FORMER RNC CHAIR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF & ABC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all -- the facts are, vice presidents get six months of coverage. That -- that's it. And Joe Biden didn't get any more when he left as VP for Barack Obama. I mean the fact of the matter is, here you’ve got Kamala Harris, who just signed a $20 million book deal, OK, and she's running around the country talking about Donald Trump being a threat to democracy. She just gave a speech saying that the clouds are over the top of our democracy. You’ve got Congressman Ramos comparing Donald Trump to Hitler. You’ve got Jasmine Crockett talking about Trump being a threat to democracy.
I mean, the fact of the matter is they get six months. The president let her get eight months. And the state of California or she can use $20 million of her own money to protect herself. The fact of the matter is this is not what the American people are talking about.
What they're talking about today on Labor Day weekend is that President Trump and his executive orders and his administration has created an environment where gas prices are lower than they have ever been in over five years. That is what the American people care about. She has -- she can get protection. And she's got more time than most people get when leaving the government and certainly beyond what the law requires.
RADDATZ: And Molly, certainly one of the things people are talking about are tariffs because U.S. Appeals Court ruled Friday that President Trump's tariffs were illegal. They're going to stay in place. This is surely going to the Supreme Court.
MOLLY BALL, WALL STREET JOURNAL SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And this is the second court that has now found that the way he imposed many of these tariffs, not all of them, some of them are under a different national security rationale, but the vast majority of the tariffs that he's imposed, and this is again the second time a court has said that he does not have the power to do this.
And so this is a major test, first of all, of whether this tariff regime will even stay in place, and the fact that courts have expressed doubt about whether they're legal has injected a lot of uncertainty into the markets as well, when, you know, importers, exporters don't know what information to bank on, don't know whether the tariffs imposed on day are going to stay in place the next.
So it will be interesting to see whether -- what the Supreme Court does here given that in many ways this conservative court has seen fit to expand the authority of the executive in so many ways. Will they put -- will they see fit to put a check on him in this area?
RADDATZ: And Donna, for the midterms coming up. I mean, the economy seems to have weathered the tariffs so far.
BRAZILE: Not so much, Martha. If you go to Michigan, or you even travel to the heartland of this country, people are complaining about rising costs.
Look, I may have 10 cents off my gas prices, but when you get to the supermarket or you go out to Walmart or God forbid if you go to Dollar General right now, you can -- it is expensive. These tariffs have created a level of uncertainty that the American people can't afford.
Donald Trump won on affordability. He won on lowering costs and people are paying the higher prices at the grocery store and in getting their kids back to school than ever before. That's what the Trump administration should be focusing on. Not the -- not weaponizing tariffs against countries that he may not like.
RADDATZ: And Reince, the president said --
PRIEBUS: OK.
RADDATZ: Said that if the tariff, if that ruling stood, that it would literally destroy the United States of America. Really?
PRIEBUS: Well, first of all, look, let's back up a minute. I mean, these were 11 judges, none of them appointed by Trump, but let's just look at it. All 11 kept the Trump tariff policies in place. The four that ruled against -- for this policy, two of them were Barack Obama appointees. So this -- so this is going to come down to the Supreme Court. But the reality is, but -- to Donna's point, GDP is up. Inflation is down. Wages are up.
And, again, look at the gas prices. I mean, the fact of the matter is that the stock market has never been higher, people are making money, and there's been over almost, I should say, almost $9 trillion in announced investments into the United States. And taking this decision -- putting it aside, everybody, I mean, the reality is, is that almost all of these countries that make up the trade imbalance, about 90 percent of it, there's 14 countries, almost all of them, almost all of them, either signed a deal or they're close -- they're close to signing a deal, which would be a bilateral deal between the United States and these countries.
So, you know, the court is going to do what it's going to do. But in the meantime, I think the Trump administration is moving forward and doing it well.
RADDATZ: OK. Well, I want to -- I want to now jump to Chicago, and threats or whatever you want to call them that they're going to send in possibly the National Guard, the president overnight on Truth Social saying if they don't clean up crime there, we're coming for you. But a larger issue obviously immigration, they say they're using D.C. as a model.
BALL: Well, and that is the -- one of the interesting things about this is that Trump is talking about this as a crime cleanup operation, but in practice, what we see in D.C. is that it is mostly an immigration enforcement operation. Most of the actual activity being carried out by the federal agents and in terms of actual arrests and operations that they're carrying out is immigration.
Now, the Trump administration has been threatening literally since the inauguration to send ICE into Chicago and do some large scale raids. I think that there -- you know, Trump keeps talking about this in terms of crime because he believes he's on safer political ground there, but this has the potential to be a sort of major escalation of the confrontation that this administration wants to see, I think, between it and these blue cities and blue states that it alleges have failed to enforce the law, have failed to clean up the streets, have failed to keep their people safe.
RADDATZ: And Reince, just quickly, he's not going into the red states and there is crime there, too. And they're high on those lists as well.
PRIEBUS: Well, maybe he will. Maybe he will go into some of these red states. You know, remember, he won all the battleground states, so I mean, they're all red states, too, and maybe he'll go into some of those as well. But think about this. I mean, you had these mayors coming on television, saying they don't want help, in the meantime, Muriel Bowser is accepting the help. Crime is going down.
I mean, these guys have a -- like a PhD in failure and a master's degrees in pretending that everything is OK. Look at the split screen here, Democrats. You've got Donald Trump on one side, fighting crime, you've got these mayors presiding over failing cities that the American people know are failing cities, and for some God unknown reason, Democrats have decided that they're going to choose the side of what everyone else hates, which is more crime, more murder, more carjackings. It makes no sense.
(CROSSTALK)
RADDATZ: I'm going to give Donna the last --
BRAZILE: Maybe if it came from somebody who believe in the rule of law.
PRIEBUS: I mean, it's wild.
BRAZILE: Maybe if it came from somebody who had a comprehensive --
PRIEBUS: The rule of law. I mean, murders?
BRAZILE: A comprehensive crime program, Joe Biden's Bipartisan Safer Communities Act that Martha talked about before, which had initiatives, which helped cities defeat crime, which helped cities bring down crime, whether you live in a -- a red state or blue state.
Look, I live in Washington, D.C. I go all over, all eight wards, and these unnecessary checkpoints that they have put up in Washington, D.C., they're not catching the criminals that we want off our streets. They're fetching people because they have tinted windows. They're fetching people because of the way they look.
There is a way to fight crime that the community all know in this city, that is that you work with the police department, you work with the government, and you have comprehensive programs. You don't just take people off the street and then find out later that they're legal residents.
RADDATZ: OK. And Donna, I'm afraid --
PRIEBUS: I mean, how -- and how is it going for the Democrats, Donna?
RADDATZ: Donna gets the last word on that, Reince.
BRAZILE: How's it going for America?
RADDATZ: OK. We got to go.
BRAZILE: It's about America.
RADDATZ: Got to go. You keep that --
PRIEBUS: You keep talking this way, we see how you do in the midterms.
(CROSSTALK)
RADDATZ: We got to stop. Thanks to all of you. We'll be right back.
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RADDATZ: And that's all for today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT" and have a great Labor Day weekend.
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