A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, February 4, 2024 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" HOST: Adviser Jake Sullivan.
Jake, thank you for joining us this morning.
Just start out, what have our strikes achieved over the last couple of days? Is the retaliation done?
JAKE SULLIVAN, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, George, part of the purpose of the strikes, essential purpose of the strikes, has been to take away capabilities from the Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Syria that are attacking or forces and from the Houthis that continue to threaten Red Sea shipping. And we believe they had good effect in reducing, degrading the capabilities of the militias and of the Houthis. And, as necessary, we will continue to take action.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And so – so do you expect more retaliation for the strike against U.S. forces in Jordan earlier this week?
SULLIVAN: Well, the first thing that I would say, and you noted it at the top of your program, is that this was the beginning of a – of our response. There will be more steps. Some of those steps will be seen. Some may not be seen. But there will be more action taken to respond to the death of the – the tragic death of the three brave U.S. service members.
And we cannot rule out that there will be future attacks from Iranian-backed militias in Iraq and Syria or from the Houthis. We have to be clear-eyed about that. And the president, in being clear-eyed about that, has told his military commanders that they need to be positioned to respond to further attacks as well.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you concerned about direct escalation from the Iranians themselves?
SULLIVAN: Well, again, this is something that we have to look at as a threat. We have to prepare for every contingency. And we were prepared for that contingency. And I would just say, from the perspective of Tehran, if they chose to respond directly to the United States, they would be met with a swift and forceful response from us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How – how much direct contact has there been with Iran to try to contain this conflict?
SULLIVAN: Over the course of the past few months we’ve had the opportunity to engage in the passage of messages back and forth between the U.S. and Iran. But, in the last few days, the message that we have sent to Iran has been through our action, not through our words.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, tell us – tell us about w here things stand now on the negotiations over a possible ceasefire and release of hostages in the Gaza war?
SULLIVAN: Well, George, we regard a hostage deal, the release of hostages, as both being obviously critical for getting people home to their loved ones, but also being critical to generate a sustained pause in hostilities that can support the flow of humanitarian assistance and that can alleviate the suffering in Gaza.
So, the president has put this shoulder to the wheel on this. he has spoken to the leaders in both Qatar and Egypt, two countries that are centrally involved in trying to broker this deal. We are in constant contact with our Israeli counterparts on it. And the goal is, in fact, to get a hostage deal in place as soon as possible. Ultimately that comes down to Hamas. And Hamas will have to be willing to say yes to an arrangement that bring hostages home. And we’re going to continue pressing from every direction to try to make that happen.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is it imminent?
SULLIVAN: I can’t say it’s imminent, but ultimately these kinds of negotiations unfold somewhat slowly until they unfold very quickly. And so it’s difficult to put a precise timetable on when something might come together or frankly if something might come together. But sitting here today I cannot tell you it’s right around the corner.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What is the end game here? Do you see any prospect at all – he seems to have been ruling it out, Prime Minister Netanyahu, of some kind of a long-term deal that leads to a Palestinian state?
SULLIVAN: Well, the U.S. position on this is very straightforward. The only long-term answer to peace in the region, to Israel's security in the region, is a two-state solution, with Israel's security guaranteed. A Palestinian state that also has security guarantees for Israel. That’s what we’re going to keep working for.
We were doing that before October 7th. I think since October 7th the need to work on that has only increased and we would like to deliver an outcome over time that has illuded administrations of both parties for decades that is in the best interests, we believe, of everyone in the region and in the wider world.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Will it require a new Israeli government?
SULLIVAN: Well, I'm not going to get into Israeli politics. The U.S. can only advance our vision for what we think makes sense. And President Biden has been very clear about that. He’s been clear publicly on the two-state solution, he’s been clear privately in speaking with Prime Minister Netanyahu, and we have to let the Israelis speak for themselves.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Meantime, the president has been pushing hard for more aid to Israel, more aid to Ukraine. He’s tied it to those negotiations over a possible border deal in the Senate as well. But last night we heard from the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, that he’s going to put a provision on the floor this week that simply is aid to Israel. Your reaction?
SULLIVAN: Well, the timing is interesting. The senators have been working on a bipartisan basis for weeks if not months at this point on a comprehensive package that involves Israel, Ukraine, the Indo-Pacific and the border. They are getting close to having that done. And at that moment the House comes forward with an Israel only bill. We regard that not as actually trying to address the security of Israel, but rather trying to address politics in the United States. And from our perspective, the security of Israel should be sacred. It should not be a political game. And so everyone should get behind a comprehensive package of the kind that bipartisan Senate – a bipartisan group of senators are negotiating as we speak.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And no indications the House is going to do that. So, if they pass it and it gets to the Senate, would the president veto it if it came to his desk?
SULLIVAN: The president is going to support a comprehensive package. He doesn’t think doing these things piecemeal makes sense. And we think we will get an opportunity for the Senate to move forward with a package. And then the real question should be put to the House, not to the president, about how to move forward with that bipartisan deal. If that deal came to his desk, he would absolutely sign it without hesitation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Jake Sullivan, thanks for your time this morning.
SULLIVAN: Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we’re joined now by the House Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries.
Congressman, thank you for coming in this morning.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Good morning.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's pick up where we left off there with Jake Sullivan.
You saw the speaker yesterday say that he’s going to bring a stand-alone Israel bill to the floor of the House. Your response?
JEFFRIES: Well, we'll evaluate that legislation over the next few days, and then on Tuesday morning, House Democrats will meet as a caucus.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you might be open to it?
JEFFRIES: Well, to decide the way forward as it relates to America’s national security priorities.
Clearly, we've got to support Israel's ability to defend itself against Hamas and to defeat Hamas. We also need to make sure that we're doing everything possible to bring the hostages home, including American citizens, and to be able to surge humanitarian assistance to Palestinian civilians who are in harm's way in Gaza through no fault of their own.
Beyond that, we also have to address the national security priorities of the American people in other parts of the world. First and foremost, certainly to support Ukraine's effort to push back against Russian aggression, also to support our allies in the Indo-Pacific -- Taiwan, Japan, South Korea. The legislation being put forth by House Republicans does none of that.
The responsible approach is a comprehensive one to address America's national security priorities.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Any prospect the speaker will put something like that on the floor?
JEFFRIES: Well, that remains to be seen. I think the Senate is working its way through to a comprehensive agreement. We could see text as early as later on this afternoon, if not tomorrow, and we should evaluate that when it's available.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about on the aid to Israel? Several members -- progressive members of your caucus have said that they want some conditions now on aid to Israel including your former New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
What do you say to them?
JEFFRIES: Well, Israel has a right to defend itself. And also, of course, a responsibility to conduct its war in a manner consistent with the international rules of conflict. We shouldn't put conditions on the ability of any of our allies to defend themselves, particularly against a brutal terrorist regime like Hamas.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What else needs to be in this bill?
JEFFRIES: Well, as the Senate is working its way through to a possible bipartisan agreement dealing with our national security priorities in other parts of the world, supporting our NATO allies, stopping Russian aggression, which is necessary -- and Ukraine has done a very good job showing incredible resilience against a brutal Russian attack, we can't abandon that.
And we also, of course, have to work on the challenges related to our broken immigration system. We'll see what emerges from the Senate in that regard.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Perhaps. But isn't that dead on arrival in the House? The House Republicans have made it very clear they’re not going to consider something like that.
JEFFRIES: It should not be dead on arrival. See -- you know, we need more common sense in Washington, D.C., less conflict and less chaos.
We're in a period of divided government. That means we should be trying to find bipartisan common ground. House Democrats have made that clear. On any issue, we'll work with our Republican counterparts when it makes sense in terms of delivering real results for the American people.
How can a bill be dead on arrival and extreme MAGA Republicans in the House haven't even seen the text? They don't even know what solutions are being proposed in terms of addressing the challenges at the border.
House Republicans at this point are wholly own subsidiaries of Donald Trump. They're not working to find real solutions for the American people. They are following orders from the former president.
That's the height of irresponsibility. That's what the American people dislike about Washington, D.C. at this moment.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's pretty clear that this week, there is going to be a vote to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas. Do the Republicans have the votes to pass it?
JEFFRIES: That remains to be seen, but there is no evidence that House Republicans have produced to show that Secretary Mayorkas has engaged in an impeachable offense, has broken the law, has committed a high crime or misdemeanor, which is the standard for impeachment.
What does impeaching Secretary Mayorkas have to do with fixing the challenges at the border? The answer is absolutely nothing. This is a partisan, political stunt and it should be abandoned by my Republican colleagues.
STEPHANOPOULOS: When it comes to politics, President Biden won the South Carolina primary, 96 percent of the vote last night. A resounding victory there. But he’s still locked in a dead heat with Donald Trump, according to some polls, behind in many of the key swing states. What does he need to do right now?
JEFFRIES: Well, it was a tremendous victory in South Carolina, a decisive one. And I think it demonstrates that as we enter into the campaign season, the American people are beginning to focus on President Biden's incredible track record of results. From the American Rescue Plan, shots in arms, money in pockets, kids back in school, rescuing the economy from a once-in-a-century pandemic and allowing the American economy to emerge as the most advanced in the world.
Yes, more needs to be done in terms of addressing affordability and the inflationary pressures, and President Biden has a vision to do that. Infrastructure and investment passed, clean water in every community, bringing manufacturing jobs back home to the United States of America, lowering the price of insulin to $35 per month for millions of Americans when it had cost $4,000 a year. This is an incredible track record of results and accomplishments.
We will not run on this track record simply to say to the American people, reward us, but we can say, trust us. We say what we mean, and we mean what we say. We're going to continue to put people over politics and deliver real results for the American people. And when the American people process that, George, I think President Biden will continue to be in a strong position to be re-elected.
STEPHANOPOULOS: All signs do now point, though, however, to a close election. Even the prospect that perhaps that it could be thrown to the House. What are the prospects that a majority of states, delegations will be controlled by Democrats if indeed this is thrown to the House?
JEFFRIES: Well, we're going to work very hard to make our case to the American people that we are focused on finding common ground, exercising common sense, to deliver the common good and make progress for hardworking American families. If we are able to successfully articulate that vision for the future, people over politics, lower costs, better paying jobs, growing the middle class, safer communities, fixing our broken immigration system, I think we're going to be in a strong position in November to deliver a House Democratic majority.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Hakeem Jeffries, thanks very much for your time this morning.
JEFFRIES: Thanks, George.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JD VANCE, (R-OH): -- working class to a very dark place.
His leading our political discourse to a very negative place.
If Trump was elected president, he has to be a much different president than he was a candidate. As a candidate, he was fundamentally divisive, arrogant.
I'm a Never Trump guy. I never liked him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That was JD Vance back in 2016. Now he's a Republican senator from Ohio supporting Donald Trump and he joins us this morning.
Senator, thank you for joining us this morning.
Back in 2016 you also wrote that Trump is unfit for office. Why have you reversed yourself?
VANCE: Well, I think in office, actually, George, he did a great job. But he proved me wrong. He also proved a lot of other people wrong, which is why I think he's doing so well in the polls these days. We have to remember, George, that Joe Biden promised to return to normalcy. And yet we have a world on fire. We have war in the Red Sea, war in Eastern Europe, war on the southern border, a terrible drug crisis. And of course, a lot of young Americans who can't afford to buy a home because interest rates are so high.
So, compare that to the track record of four years of Donald Trump, where we actually had a secure border, we had rising wages for the middle class, and we had the American Dream that seemed more attainable and more achievable for more people. It's hard not to conclude that I was wrong and so many were wrong about Donald Trump back in 2015. He delivered George, he did a good job. And I think it's why we ought to give him another run at it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Of course, wages are rising now. And we just saw that economic for coming this week showing the economy continues to grow new job growth, as well. But since then, Donald Trump not only lost the 2020 election and tried to overturn the results. He also faced a series of legal judgments and indictments. Most recently, this E. Jean Carroll case where juries have found him liable for sexual assault and defamation, leading to ads like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Supporting Donald Trump sends a message to every abuser.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A stunning verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every rapist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former President Trump has been ordered to pay 80 --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And every man who's ever used his power --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to write or --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to hurt a woman. Because if he can do it, why shouldn't they?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you respond to that, that you're supportive Trump is sanctioning that kind of behavior, sexual assault and defamation?
VANCE: Well, I think it's actually very unfair to the victims of sexual assault, to say that somehow their lives are being worse by electing Donald Trump for president, when what he's trying to do, I think is restore prosperity. So, I think it's insulting to victim -- victims of sexual assault. If you actually look at so many of the court cases against Donald Trump, George, this is not about prosecuting Trump for something that he did. It's about throwing him off the ballot because Democrats feel that they can't beat him at the ballot box. And so, they're trying to defeat them in court.
This case, like so many legal cases against Donald Trump, they're trumped up they're -- they're an extremely left-wing jurisdictions, or it's actually the Biden administration prosecuting his chief political rival. I think most Americans recognize that this is not what we want to fight the 2024 election over. Let's fight it over issues. Let's fight it over how to redeliver prosperity to the American worker and peace to the world at large, not over these ridiculous court cases that frankly, they've been throwing at Trump for well before he became a political candidate. And they're going to be going after him for a long time because his agenda is actually a threat to the people who have been calling the shots in this country for far too long.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You call it a ridiculous case. These were juries that found him liable for sexual assault in defamation. That's ridiculous?
VANCE: These are juries, George, in extremely left-wing jurisdictions. These are cases that are very often funded by left-wing donors and their cases that are funded explicitly to harm him politically not to seek justice for any particular group of individuals.
George, if you look at all of these cases, the through line, two-fold. Number one, they’re funded by Donald Trump’s political opponents, and the goal here is not to help us actually have a real conversation about how to advance the country forward. Their goal is to defeat Trump at the courts because these people know they can’t defeat him at the ballot box.
It's really shameful actually, George, if you think about so many of these people who say, we're – we’re living in a world where there's a threat to democracy. Donald Trump or his supporters are threats to democracy, and yet they're using the courts to deny the American people from even having a choice. If you don't like Donald Trump, of course, you can vote against him, but you should at least have that choice. And it's telling that the people who talk about threats to democracy are trying to destroy the democratic process in this country.
We've got to talk about the issues, George. There are so many crises happening all across the world. There are so many problems right here at home. I think Donald Trump is the best guy to fix those problems. And I think that we have a very, very good chance of persuading the American people.
What they don't want to talk about is weird juries in New York City. They want to talk about how to make their lives better and how to bring the world to a more peaceful place.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, juries in New York City are not legitimate when they – when they find someone liable for sexual defamation and assault?
VANCE: Well, when the cases are funded by left wing donors and when the case has absolute left wing bias all over it, George, absolutely I think that we should call into question that – that particular conclusion. We have to remember, of course, that these cases exist, not because they were trying to seek justice. Reid Hoffman, a far left donor, did not fund this case because he cares about what happens to sexual assault victims. He funded this case to harm his political opponent, Donald Trump. It's pretty weird. It's a weird thing to do to use the courts in this way. It's never happened before in American history. And, yes, I think it should call into question the entire apparatus that's being used to go after Donald Trump.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you're not troubled by the sexual assault and defamation. Let me ask you about January 6th. You’ve mentioned as a possible vice president for Donald Trump. Had you been vice president on January 6th, would you have certified the election results?
VANCE: Oh, George, this is such a ridiculous question, in part because the law has changed here. We, of course, had a major legal change in the Electoral Count Act.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I didn't ask you about going forward. I asked you what you would have done. I asked you what you would have done.
VANCE: George, here's what I think – here’s – here’s what I think happened in 2020. And I know you guys are obsessed with talking about this. I have to make a point here. You constantly say to people like me, why do you talk about January the 6th, why do you talk about the election of 2020, and then you ask about this multiple times during a six minute interview.
But, look, you asked the question, and I'll answer it. Do I think there were problems in 2020? Yes, I do. Do I think it was a problem that big technology companies, working with the intelligence services, censored the presidential campaign of Donald Trump? Yes. Do I think it's a problem that Pennsylvania changed its balloting rules in the middle of the election season in a way that even some courts in Pennsylvania have said was illegal? Yes, I think these were problems, George, and I think there is a political solution to those problems.
So, litigating which slate of electors were legitimate I think is fundamentally the political solution to the problems that existed in 2020. It's a reasonable debate to have. And I find it weird, George, that people like you obsess with what I call what happened in 2020, you're so incurious about what actually happened in 2020, which is why so many people mistrust our elections in this country. We’ve got to do better, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not the least – I'm not the least bit incurious. In fact, you laid out a litany there, but you didn't answer the question. I asked, would you have certified the election results had you been vice president?
VANCE: If I had been vice president, I would have told the states, like Pennsylvania, Georgia and so many others that we needed to have multiple slates of electors and I think the U.S. Congress should have fought over it from there. That is the legitimate way to deal with an election that a lot of folks, including me, think had a lot of problems in 2020. I think that's what we should have done.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So it's very clear, you would have done what Donald Trump asked you to do there, not what Vice President Mike Pence did.
You said that that's about the past, but, of course, Donald Trump --
VANCE: No, no, George – George, it’s not – no, no, George, it’s not about what – it’s not about what –
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that’s what you just said.
VANCE: George, it’s not about what Donald Trump asks somebody to do. It's about, what do we do when you have a problem like what happened in 2020? How do you respond to it? How does the political system respond to this? You can't have a media apparatus that looks, for example, at the intelligence services working with technology companies to censor Americans and say, well, we just can't deal with this. There's no solution to this problem.
And by the way, George, I don't want to talk about this stuff because I think what happened in 2020 is far, far less important than what's happened since 2020. The wide-open southern border, the fentanyl crisis plaguing our communities, the inflation crisis that is making it hard for Americans to afford a good middle class lifestyle. We need to litigate the 2024 election about those issues.
You guys are obsessed with talking about 2020. I'm happy to answer the questions, but I think it's a disservice to the American people that you're so preoccupied with it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it's President Trump who's preoccupied with it, too. He's the one who's talked about pardoning those who participated in the riots. And you did just answer the question. You would refuse to re-certify the election.
I do want to talk about the agenda for 2024. Because you also have laid out very clear advice for what you want Donald Trump to do.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: I think that what Trump should do, like, if I was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace them with our people. And when the courts -- because you will get taken to court -- and when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did, and say "The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it."(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Fire everyone in the government, then defy the Supreme Court?
You think it's OK for the president to defy the Supreme Court?
VANCE: No, no, George, I did not say fire everyone in the government. I said replace the mid-level bureaucrats with people who are responsive to the administration's agenda. That's called democracy.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Every civil servant in the administrative state.
VANCE: One of the problems -- no, George, I said the mid-level bureaucrats. And one of the problems that we have in this government...
STEPHANOPOULOS: You said, "every civil servant in the administrative state."
VANCE: Who don't actually -- who don't -- let me finish the answer, George. You asked the question. We have a major problem here with administrators and bureaucrats in the government who don't respond to the elected branches.
Let's just give one very real-world example of this. In 2019, Donald Trump, having defeated ISIS, said that we should redeploy our troops in Syria and Jordan out of the region. You had multiple members of the Defense Department bureaucracy who fought him on that.
So what happened? We have people who are sitting ducks in the Levant right now, three of whom just got killed because the bureaucrats aren't listening to the political branches.
That's a fundamental component of our government, George, that whoever is in charge, agree or disagree with him, you have to follow the rules. If those people aren't following the rules, then of course you've got to fire them, and of course, the president has to be able to run the government as he thinks he should. That's the way the Constitution works. It has been thwarted too much by the way our bureaucracy has worked over the past 15 years.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The Constitution also says the president must abide by legitimate Supreme Court rulings, doesn't it?
VANCE: The Constitution says that the Supreme Court can make rulings, but if the Supreme Court -- and, look, I hope that they would not do this, but if the Supreme Court said the president of the United States can't fire a general, that would be an illegitimate ruling, and the president has to have Article II prerogative under the Constitution to actually run the military as he sees fit.
This is just basic constitutional legitimacy. You're talking about a hypothetical where the Supreme Court tries to run the military. I don't think that's going to happen, George. But of course, if it did, the president would have to respond to it. There are multiple examples throughout American history of the president doing just that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You didn't say "military" in your answer, and you've made it very clear you believe the president can defy the Supreme Court.
Senator, thanks for your time this morning.
VANCE: No, no -- no, no, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable's up next. We'll be right back.